Is Church Practical?
Aug 8th, 2007 by Admin
The other day as I was sitting in “church,” the thought came to me, “this just isn’t practical.” The message was on spending time with God early, every morning. The pastor talked about how important and vital to life this discipline was in becoming more than an overcomer. But instead of feeling motivated to go out there and make my morning quiet times just like his, I felt rather condemned. Why? Because my quiet times did not even come close to the bar that he had set.
The problem with the message was not that the the content wasn’t true. He was right. That’s what we needed. But at the end of the sermon, how many people were able to effect change in their daily devotional life? Probably less than 1% -especially by Wednesday. So my question was: “is this the most practical way to deliver this message?”
The answer seemed to me to be - “no.”
Why? Because we’ve never seen what it’s like. We don’t know what it looks like to pursue God until we apprehend Him. We’ve not seen it modeled. Even if the pastor is good at it, we’re not going to gain his discipline through his message on Sunday morning.
What does being the “church” look like? I don’t know. I don’t believe we’ve seen a good model in America. That’s not to say that all church’s are evil, but I think that we live substandard of what God originally envisioned!
This is a great post! It is right along the lines of my blog I just started. I too see the verbosity, impracticality and lengthiness of the traditional “sermon”. Thanks for the thoughts!
The churches in America are dead! At least for the most part. We have eloquent speakers. Even ones who know the bible very well, but the real power is gone. Good luck finding it. My thought is we have compromised with the world and its worldly laws and contracts. Then we wounder why are churches and the Christians in them are worldly.
God Bless, Jerome
i was involved for a long time with a group called the navigators, and this is one of their rally cries. they really focus on modeling the disciple walk, not just preaching it. i for one have seen much more growth among people who have been personally mentored by a more mature christian. but at the same time, i think part of the reason we dont see it in the church at large is that pastors dont see their role as disciplemaker, but rather just preacher.
i think this dicotomy is an unhealthy one. all pastors should be discipling younger christians. and in turn, these younger christians would be doing the same, all the way down throughout the church. but it has to start with the pastor.
shalom
peter
Well I think you might be trying to plead innocent for your inablility to have the desire to want to read the bible in the morning. I usually eat breakfast in the morning but that’s very new to me to tell you the truth. I use to get up and gaze and wonder what today might be and then mabye read some passages of scripture but I don’t think a morning devotion is necessary as long as you at some point in the day try to fill up and fortify yourself with the bread, meat, and milk of the holy word of God. I like to do this at night so I sleep hard and get to dream but that’s just me. I would suggest letting the pastor know he’s doing a good job and you just don’t read in the morning because of cramps or whatever.
john
Faith-
Welcome! I haven’t had time to check out your blog yet.
I’m not against sermons, per se, but I think I’m coming to the place that I believe that most of the change that will take place in people’s lives, will not come from a sermon. It will come from life. Living life together. That’s when we’ll change. By praying, walking, standing & living life with each other. Not by simply listening to a good sermon once a week.
Thanks for stopping by!
Blessings!
Jerome-
Welcome!
A verse comes to mind. Something along the lines of: we preach the gospel, but deny the power of it’s message. The Kingdom of God is not just in word only, but should also be a display of power.
This is where my hunger is. To see the power of God. To not just talk about or read about it. But to experience it.
Blessings!
Peter-
Agreed!
John -
Welcome!
I don’t know, but I think I would very much like to have a morning prayer & devotional time. But it is a discipline. Having the desire is not the same as cultivating a lifestyle. I’m not trying to plead innocent. I am guilty.
But what I noticed was that he had someone who got up with him every morning, until the discipline was established in his life. The practice didn’t come from listening to a sermon. It came from walking together, & living life together!
I’m not saying that what the pastor was saying was wrong. His message was true. My question was simply: how many were going to practically apply it?
Blessings!
Heretic,
I think this is the verse your thinking of.
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Reading the verse in context might give you quite a shock. Would love to get your take on it, and what it mean in context of your article here. I feel like in order to really shine the light on the real issues we need to really pinpoint and refine our understanding of the problem.
Jerome
Jerome-
Sorry for the lazy response.
Yes, 2 Timothy 3:5 - but no, reading the verse in context does not give me a shock.
Because I was also thinking of:
To me the verses go hand in hand, and here’s why:
In 2 Timothy, Paul is writing about the godlessness that will be found on the earth in the last days. He goes on to list not a few godless qualities:
- Lovers of self
- Lovers of money
- Boastful
- Proud
- Lovers of pleasure
Then Paul states that men (who do the above godless deeds) have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. They look godly, but there lives deny His power.
How does this not apply to my article? The churches (of America) today cry out of the power of God. They preach about it, they talk about it, they sing about it, but when push comes to shove, all we have are words with no deeds. We have a form of godliness but deny the power of God Himself.
We talk about Jesus being the savior, but it is for the future tense only. We don’t believe that Jesus could, would or will help someone out of their present hell. Why? Because he’s not strong enough or because he refuses. Because he can’t take a demon-possessed man who cannot be contained by any man made vises - and set the captive free - so free that he is in his right mind - clothed and civilized? Where is the God who could do that? Where is the God who could open up the Red Sea so that his people could escape an imminent slaughter? Where is the God who could heal leprosy?
Let’s bring it into today’s terms:
- Where is the God who can heal cancer, leukemia, alzheimers, AIDS, etc?
- Where is the God who can restore broken marriages?
- Where is the God who can restore hope & future to the depressed?
- Where is the God who can wipe out debt with the blink of an eye?
Where is He? Where is His power? Is it present on Sunday morning in any church across America? Sure it is! It’s there! Because God is there! We’ve been told He’s everywhere - which is true! But where is the power that he promised.
The power of the Spirit that came upon Jesus when he proclaimed that:
The power to:
- Open the prison doors and set the captives free
- To give sight to the blind
- To make the lame walk
- To heal the broken hearted
- To proclaim liberty to all who are oppressed
(Luke 4:16-21)
That is what life in the Kingdom is about. It’s not about listening to endless sermons without producing any viable results. It’s about living life together, and seeing the Kingdom of God come on earth as it is in heaven!
Blessings!
PS - Could this description not apply to a lot of “churches” today?
Timothy 3
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
I don’t see much of his power in the churches. The way I see it, the church has retreated to its little corner. Getting people saved and free from sin is great but that is just the starting point. Really if we want to see revival or some real power instead of just Sunday preachers who don’t really stand up for anything in the community. Or for that matter anything what so ever when it comes to all the agreements and bondage we get ourselves into with our Godless government and institutions. Isn’t this type of bondage what caused the reformation from the catholic controlled Government? Really I think is starts with pastors to stand up against tyranny, injustice and all the wickedness. For these reasons I believe we need to find a real pastor and get behind. Someone who hasn’t given licit to Caesar(501c3). Who is going to stand up against the government or institutions that try to run our lives, our churches, our families and our minds. We are the stewards of these things and ultimately they belong to GOD.
Our societies have gone down the slippery slop into collectivism and we seem to be hanging on. Hoping we can change those who are yoked with the system and trying to bring them out of this mindset without getting out ourselves.
I believe all the things you listed are available for us. But they all are just as prevalent in the church. I remember there being a lot of condition statements in the bible like: IF you repent I will heal your land.
Well thats my rant for the night. Thanks for reading. And God Bless.
Jerome
Jerome-
You said:
I agree, and believe this is one of the greatest disappointments in the world today. People need the power of God.
I’ve often said, that if the God I serve is not big enough or powerful enough to fix any situation - than He’s not worthy of anything!
That rhetorical statement (if there is such a thing) reminds me that there is nothing impossible for my God. That He is worthy. That this situation that I’m facing right now is not bigger than God’s redeeming and transforming power.
I believe we have 2 options with this valuation:
1. To grow cynical and withdraw from those who claim to be on a similar road. ~OR~
2. Turn our eyes away from the faults and follies of men, and place them upon the King. The author and finisher of our faith.
Acquiring the power of God will not come by pointing our fingers at others, but rather in desperate, unashamed pursuit of the Holy God. He is what we need.
We will not get the power by acting destructively, but rather constructively!
Blessings!
I see what your saying Heretic. But I think your missing what I’m saying here. I’ll try to elaborate. For example if you had the choice of going to a mega church where they where week about preaching against sin or another church where they preached against sin and taught a more biblical message. Would you not go to the church with a better hold on the scriptures willing to speak out against sin? Where the power of God could have more ability to to work in you life?
So when I point the finger at many of the pastors and the churches I’m not trying to be cynical or am I at all saying we should withdraw. Just the opposite actually. I realize these are tendencies when we look at the disparaging reality of most of our so called Bible teaching churches. It is easy to get cynical and easy to want to withdraw. I’m glad you made those points but we need to address the problems. I believe addressing the issues is turning our eyes towards our King. You may call yourself a heretic but I think your simply touching some vital issues that people would rather not address.
The way I see it is if all of us sit in the churches who refuse to address the problems, We are going to end up supporting a church that really does not display God’s Power the way He intended. And more importantly missing out on the power that God wants to use in our lives. Would you agree, that is not constructive!? Its not that there is anything wrong with big churches, they seem to get a bad rap only because people who recognize God’s real power are in the wrong ones.
I think we are in very similar situations. I’m still attend a power less often church. I’ve tried to address these issues with my pastor and some of the leadership as well as friends and family. I do believe that it is our duty to at least worn them. But only God can change them. I’m not saying I’m any better then the people at my church. I KNOW that’s not true, but in our journey to receive more of Him, I’m convinced it is better found in a church where Gods power is more full and complete. Not just for ourselves but for our King.
God Bless, Jerome
Government Takeover of the Church:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4096944125079342774
Heretic,
I haven’t read all of the comments, so, if I am repeating what someone else said, sorry.
I think you are right that we don’t have the proper example of “church” here in America. But, we do have the proper examples of “Christians” all around us. Is that to say they have reached the level you wish to attain? No.
What you seek to attain seems to be something that can only be done by the individual before it can be done by the group. If you pray and set your heart to be that example, you will than be able to teach to others what you have found. And, even then, if they do not have the ears to hear, what else can you do?
It seems to me that Christ, the son of God, was here on earth, and even He could not convince some people of his power and might. They were looking right at Him, saw his miracles, and still nailed him to the cross. Maybe they were convinced of His might and power, but decided to crucify Him out of fear despite their knowledge. Don’t know.
Either way, Christ still leaves us with the free will to absorb as much of His power as we want. We chose to receive what we in fact receive. I am coming to find that myself lately.
My point is this: people are sheep. They have to be led. The church is a tool to shepherd and guide. I think the individual has to grow before the flock can grow. When a sheep discovers the FULL miracles Christ has to offer here on earth, then he can rise to be a shepherd.
So, to expect the church in its current state to grow beyond what it has might be a fool’s errand. I think we have to grow as Christians and then teach what we have learned.
Even then, they might not be able to recieve. But, if you can lead one or two, they might be able to lead one or two. And so on and so on.
Hope I didn’t stray too far from the original intention of your post.
Alamo.
Jerome -
Again - I hear you! I believe God is wanting to move mightily - with transforming, healing power today, but he just can’t find many who will believe His word for what it really is. He will accomplish His will - through you, me and anyone else who is not afraid or ashamed to stand-up for Truth!
Blessings!
Bandit-
Thanks for stopping by! I miss you man!
Anyway, I agree with most of what you’ve written, and think you’re on the right path.
It’s going to have to start with individuals. But I still feel that the whole purpose of the church is to strengthen the individual through the power of numbers. A support system. It should be a group of people who are striving to get as much of the presence of God in their lives as possible.
I’m not going to give up on that dream. But I think you’re right. Before we can get a “church to do it,” we’re going to have to start small. A few people who passionately pursue the presence and power of God, whose lives like a vacuum suck in others as they gather steam!
Blessings!
Agreed 110%
May He bless the leaders so the flock will follow. May He bless the flock so the leaders can endure.
Bandit
Bandit-
A lot to read here, good responses. I am not willing yet to ring the death knell for the American church, but I see your points (all of you). What has kept mt faith in Christ all these years (and I’ve seen some pretty scandalous “moral failures” within church leadership) is that God is everything I need, perfect and pure, even when the messengers are not. Of course, we are all “dirty” in this sense, and I think it speaks toward the idea many of us have that pastors need to be perfect examples. A good example, yes. But no one is perfect.
In the sense of a borrowed analogy, I have always considered this the “dirty glass” principle. God and His plan of salvation is perfect and pure, like some pure spring water. However, none of us can drink of this water without a container of some sort; it must be presented in a glass. The problem is, the glasses are all dirty. Can this lessen the attractivness of the water? Sure! That is why we must all be the best examples we can be. However, the best we can do is make the glass as presentable as possible, as the glass is never really “worthy” of carrying the water that is in it. The problem I keep seeing is that the glasses, while obviously not spotless, typically have written on them “this glass is so clean…you want to be like this glass, don’t you?”. It’s the marketing. Sell the water, not the glass.
Mike-
Good thoughts. I don’t think I’m at all giving up on the American church, as much as I am trying to shift my hope to Christ. He is HOPE!
Blessings!